{"id":112054,"date":"2023-11-07T09:29:37","date_gmt":"2023-11-07T09:29:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/staging.wingify.com\/blog\/1000-experiments-club-ruben-de-boer\/"},"modified":"2026-09-10T18:53:28","modified_gmt":"2026-09-10T13:23:28","slug":"1000-experiments-club-ruben-de-boer","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/wingify.com\/blog\/1000-experiments-club-ruben-de-boer\/","title":{"rendered":"Taking an Outcome-Driven Approach | Ruben de Boer"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h2 id=\"h-ruben-de-boer-explains-what-it-takes-to-create-a-healthy-testing-environment-that-paves-the-way-for-better-experimentation-organization-wide\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><b>Ruben de Boer explains what it takes to create a healthy testing environment that paves the way for better experimentation organization-wide<\/b><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ruben de Boer is a lead CRO Manager and consultant with over 14 years of experience in data and optimization. At Online Dialogue, Ruben leads the Conversion Managers team, developing team skills and quality as well as setting the team strategy and goals. He spreads his knowledge far both as a teacher with Udemy with over 12,000 students and as a public speaker on topics such as experimentation, change management, CRO and personal growth.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">In 2019, Ruben founded his company, Conversion Ideas, where he helps people kick start their career in Conversion Rate Optimization and Experimentation by providing affordable, high-quality online courses and a number of resources.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Wingify\u2019s VP Marketing Marylin Montoya spoke with Ruben about exciting trends and evolutions within the world of experimentation, including&nbsp; the various ways AI can impact the optimization of the experimentation process. Ruben also shares ways to involve cross-functional teams to implement a successful culture of experimentation within the organization and why it\u2019s important to steer these teams towards an outcome- rather than an output-driven mindset.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Here are some key takeaways from their conversation.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-spotify wp-block-embed-spotify wp-embed-aspect-21-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe title=\"Spotify Embed: Taking an Outcome-Driven Approach | Ruben de Boer\" style=\"border-radius: 12px\" width=\"100%\" height=\"152\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen allow=\"autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; fullscreen; picture-in-picture\" loading=\"lazy\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/5w0UJPOBgturH5vhAEXmhW?si=2c7d7b8aa3f84227&amp;utm_source=oembed\"><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-the-goal-should-always-be-outcome-driven\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><b>The goal should always be outcome-driven<\/b><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Based on his experience, Ruben believes that one of the biggest pitfalls companies face when trying to kick start their experimentation journey is they focus more on outputs rather than outcomes.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u201cWhen a company is still very much in an output mindset, meaning we have to deliver an X amount of sprint points per sprint and we have to release so many new features this year, then of course experimentation can be seen as something that slows it down, right?&nbsp; Let\u2019s say as a rule of thumb, 25% of A\/B tests or experiments result in a winner and so 75% of what was built will not be released, which means the manager does not get the output goals.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">In this scenario, experimentation becomes an obstacle that slows down these outputs. Whereas, when a company shifts towards an outcome mindset, it makes more sense to run experiments with the goal to create more value for the customer.<\/span><b> With an outcome-mindset, teams embrace experimentation with customers at the heart of the process<\/b><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">When teams are more outcome-oriented, the product is based more on research and experiments instead of a fixed long-term roadmap. According to Ruben, it\u2019s vital that companies adopt such a way of working as it helps create better products and business outcomes, which ultimately helps them maintain their competitive advantage.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-importance-of-cross-functional-teams\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><b>Importance of cross-functional teams<\/b><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ruben argues that experimentation is maturing in that it\u2019s becoming more embedded within product teams.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">He notes there\u2019s a rising trend of different teams working together, which Ruben believes is essential for knowledge sharing when it comes to learning new things about the customer journey and the product itself. For Ruben, this helps create an ideal, healthy experimentation environment for teams to experiment better and get the results they want.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Ideally, there would be experts in experimentation coming in from different teams sharing knowledge, ideas and insights on a regular basis which helps drive inspiration and innovation when it comes to future test ideas.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The recipe behind the success of these experimentation teams varies and depends on the maturity of the experimentation program and the skills of these teams.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">This could start with a look into the culture of the organization by sending questionnaires to various teams to understand their work process and how autonomous they are. This analysis would also help teams to understand what their current state of experimentation is like such as how accepting they are of experimentation. This helps to devise a strategy and roadmap to successfully implement a culture of experimentation throughout the whole organization.&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">This culture scan also helps determine the maturity of an experimentation program.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u201cProcess, data, team, scope, alignment, and company culture: that&#8217;s what I generally look at when I assess the maturity of an organization. Is there a CRO specialist throughout the different product teams? How&#8217;s decision-making being done by leadership? Is it based on the HIPPO decisions or fully based on experimentation? Then there\u2019s the outcome versus output mindset, the scope and alignment of experimentation as well as the structure of the team- is it just a single CRO specialist or a multidisciplinary team? What does the process look like? Is it just a single CRO process or is it a process embedded in a project team?\u201d Ruben says.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-a-world-of-possibilities-with-ai\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><b>A world of possibilities with AI<\/b><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">With the advent of AI technology, Ruben believes there\u2019s a lot of possibilities with what can be done with it, particularly in the experimentation process.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">While he admits it\u2019s still too early to speculate and that there are also the many privacy concerns that come with such technology, he believes AI can bring a lot of exciting things in the future.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u201cIt would be so nice to have an AI go over experiments on the product detail page with all the results and all the learnings, and just ask the AI, what did I actually learn and what would be good follow up experiments on that? And that would be enormously interesting to have an AI run through all the experiments in the database,\u201d Ruben says.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Therefore, Ruben admits there are a number of possibilities of what teams can do when it comes to designing experiments and saving time and steps in the experimentation process.&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u201cAnd just think about maybe three or four years from now, everyone will just have an AI app on their phone and say, I need to buy this and I will buy it for you. And maybe a website with only AI apps on it to purchase stuff, who knows? And then optimization becomes very different all of a sudden.\u201d&nbsp;<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">There\u2019s also significant potential with AI when it comes to changing the way people work as well as provide inspiration and ultimately optimize and bring innovation to the experimentation process.<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">\u201cMaybe based on all the input we give from chat logs, social media channels, reviews, surveys, we can make the AI behave like a user at some point in the future somewhere, which you then don&#8217;t have to run user tests anymore because you just let AI see your website.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 id=\"h-what-else-can-you-learn-from-our-conversation-with-ruben-de-boer\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><b>What else can you learn from our conversation with Ruben de Boer?<\/b><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<ul class=\"wp-block-list\">\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">Evolving trends in experimentation&nbsp;<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">His take on change management to help organizations adopt experimentation<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">His own experiences with building cross-functional teams<\/span><\/li>\n\n\n\n<li><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">How to tackle resistance when it comes to experimentation&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n\n\n\n<h6 id=\"h-about-ruben-de-boer\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><i>About Ruben de Boer<\/i><\/strong><\/h6>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">With over 14 years of experience as a lead CRO manager and consultant in data and optimization, Ruben is a two-time winner in the Experimentation Elite Awards 2023 and a best-selling instructor on Udemy with over 12,000 students. He is also a public speaker on topics such as experimentation culture, change management, conversion rate optimization, and personal growth. Today, Ruben is the Lead Conversion Manager responsible for leading the Conversion Managers team, developing team skills and quality, setting the team strategy and goals, and business development.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h6 id=\"h-about-1-000-experiments-club\" class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><i>About 1,000 Experiments Club<\/i><\/strong><\/h6>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">The <\/span><\/i><a href=\"https:\/\/wingify.com\/resource-categories\/podcast\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noopener\"><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\">1,000 Experiments Club<\/span><\/i><\/a><i><span style=\"font-weight: 400\"> is an AB Tasty-produced podcast hosted by Marylin Montoya, CMO at AB Tasty. Join Marylin and the Marketing team as they sit down with the most knowledgeable experts in the world of experimentation to uncover their insights on what it takes to build and run successful experimentation programs.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n\n\n<div class=\"wp-block-image\">\n<figure class=\"aligncenter size-full\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1280\" height=\"367\" src=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg\" alt=\"Listen To The Podcast\" class=\"wp-image-116140\" srcset=\"https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg 1280w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg?tr=w-1024 1024w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg?tr=w-768 768w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg?tr=w-640 640w, https:\/\/static.wingify.com\/gcp\/uploads\/sites\/3\/2024\/10\/listen-to-the-podcast.jpg?tr=w-375 375w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 1280px) 100vw, 1280px\" \/><\/figure>\n<\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Ruben de Boer explains what it takes to create a healthy testing environment that paves the way for better experimentation organization-wide Ruben de Boer is a lead CRO Manager and consultant with over 14 years of experience in data and optimization. At Online Dialogue, Ruben leads the Conversion Managers team, developing team skills and quality&#8230;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1483,"featured_media":115643,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"post_read_time":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[10880],"tags":[],"feature":[],"industry-type":[],"product":[],"role":[],"region":[],"class_list":["post-112054","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized-de"],"acf":[],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Taking an Outcome-Driven Approach | Ruben de Boer - Wingify Blog<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Discover three of the key takeaways from our interview with Ruben de Boer, lead CRO Manager and consultant.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/wingify.com\/blog\/1000-experiments-club-ruben-de-boer\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Taking an Outcome-Driven Approach | Ruben de Boer - 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